Upstream images vs bazzite: https://github.com/ublue-os/countme/blob/main/growth_upstream_with_bazzite.svg
My prediction: bazzite may have more installs than Fedora KDE by the end of the year.
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- hperrin@lemmy.caEnglish7 days
Bazzite is awesome. Not surprised it’s so successful. Congrats to the team. :)
- 7 days
While I see value in something as NixOs for the reproducibility. I do not understand what is the value in having an immutable system. I’m not saying there’s no value, I just can not imagine a use case in which it is better than a normal system.
A htpc in which you just need to launch media
A steam Deck like handheld in which you just want your game launcher
A PC for a kid whom you don’t want messing around with system files
A PC for your technologically inept family members to just use as an email/browser/word processor
- Cethin@lemmy.zipEnglish7 days
I honestly think the kid example is a counter example. Kids now don’t understand technology, because we try to keep them so far away from how it actually works. I’m very technologically literate because I was messing around with my system as a kid.
It’s the same as how older generations can take apart an engine, and most people now can’t even change their own oil. We try to “protect” users from the technology, and they never learn how it works. No, they should be given access to break it. That’s how you learn how it functions.
Because when I finish my 10 hour shift, get home from my 2 hour commute, to my 6 year old kid crying because she managed to fuck her Minecraft machine up somehow, I don’t want to spend my only free half hour that day trying to work or what she did.
That’s not a learning opportunity for her. Even if she had the patience to sit there and watch me try to fix it, she won’t r get what I’m doing. And after getting up at 5.30, getting home at 7.30 watch how good I am at not just swearing at the thing instead.
5 daysRsync changes each week to a network share with an A/B layout, switching backup targets back and forth each time. Something breaks? Remote in, rsync back, by the time you get home from work it’ll be back as it was and running already.
- 6 days
What if you have a system that just works and you can’t break?
No rsync, no remoting from work (vpn or other software et al), no “i gotta be on alert for when my kid breaks my computer again”
Also, why do we have to shame people for just wanting to use their computer?
I’m not shaming. I’m offering a simple Solution. The backups can be automated and you can NetBoot the restore process off that rsync target so you don’t have to be distracted at work. You can have a simple plan to execute if you get these calls while you are at work so there is no problem you can’t instantly reverse. It takes no time to pull off after you’ve set it up.
- 7 days
I still miss the advantages for these cases.
I can understand the kid example, but I feel that’s easily solved by not giving them root access.
A htpc in which you just need to launch media
Setup the system and install whatever media software. Update it every once in a while or setup auto updates. I do not see any difference between traditional os and immutable. You’re likely not modifying any system files anyway.
A steam Deck like handheld in which you just want your game launcher
The producing company controls software and updates, it should be immutable anyway as users likely do not have root access. Were users to have root access this may make sense. I’m not sure, maybe the immutability would make updates easier for the company?
A PC for your technologically inept family members to just use as an email/browser/word processor
Are they really going to brick their system? That would require opening the terminal. But I mean, fair.
What I do not understand is why there are users swearing by bazzite and other immutable distributions. These examples you make is basically for users who just do the most basic operations with their systems. Fair, if this makes it easier for non technical people to use Linux I’m all for it. What I do not understand is why technically adept people are so excited for these kinds of distributions?
I control a htpc with an Xbox gamepad. Bazzite I don’t even think about updates, it just happens instead of saying “should probably update” and unplugging my nose and keyboard from my other PC. Or leaving mouse and keyboard sit on the floor in front of my tv cabinet.
Most handheld suppliers are shipping windows, replacing it with an immutable system is definitely the way to go. On screen keyboards are play I guess, but even my experience just doing a regular distro on a tablet it was a hassle.
Look, I’m not going into detail on this anymore. But I want to say I’m surprised by how much people are pushing back. “Oh instead of using bazzite, you could setup rsync to do an a/b switch with your server if something goes wrong”. (Elsewhere in these comments).
I just didn’t think it would be so much for people to accept there are use cases for why people do things differently to them.
- 7 days
I still miss the advantages for these cases.
Zero-maintenance and upgrades.
Update it every once in a while or setup auto updates. I do not see any difference between traditional os and immutable. You’re likely not modifying any system files anyway.
You’re overthinking it, there’s no reason to care if the root disk is readable or not. If it updates reliably out of the box there’s no reason to touch it.
Are they really going to brick their system? That would require opening the terminal. But I mean, fair.
You don’t need to open a terminal to brick a traditional linux system they tend to do that on their own.
What I do not understand is why there are users swearing by bazzite and other immutable distributions. These examples you make is basically for users who just do the most basic operations with their systems.
I can’t speak for “immutable distributions” but for bazzite it’s to ensure working upgrades.
What I do not understand is why technically adept people are so excited for these kinds of distributions?
I’m technically adept at Linux I expect software to work. (system upgrades should work, app installation shouldn’t break the PC, etc.)
- MangoCats@feddit.itEnglish7 days
easily solved by not giving them root access.
Root vs non-root is, in a nutshell, a tangled mess with millions of opportunities for “oops, didn’t think of that” situations: https://www.cve.org/downloads
Immutable keeps the legacy system confituration basically unchanged, but also restores it “from ROM” every time you power on. (not real ROM, but effectively.) In an immutable system, the attack surface is dramatically reduced, and much more diverse among systems than with a mutable OS.
- 7 days
I reckon this must be true. However I do not see this as a reason for wide adoption of immutable systems. I guess that is a fairly valid use case.
I’d like to understand why some users are enthusiastic about bazzite. As of now I understood two of the reasons:
- updates work and do not break the system
- it is a bit more secure
However I do not understand why these two things make their users so enthusiastic. It’s two things you rarely worry about when using a computer. They are indeed important, but in my opinion not much of a problem in modern distributions.
In the other hand you have to install everything through flatpak, which is something which would really get to my nerves.
I understand there are some good advantages, I just fail to understand which ones those are.
It requires literally zero work from me to maintain, that’s why I’m enthusiastic and want the project to do well. Saying mutable Linux is zero work is dead wrong. And if you do put work into your system, it actually sticks and doesn’t decide to explode one day over it.
- 7 days
I feel like it may not overtake KDE, from the graphs the trend seems to somewhat be following there too recently. Like a bump in number of downloads because of popularity, but not a linear trend. Does that even make sense?
- 6 days
Isn’t that like comparing apples to oranges? Bazzite is a distro and KDE is a DE
