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- 1 day
The Odyssey is a work of fiction. It’s a heroic epic, not a history. How do you make a historically accurate version of fictional oral poetry?
- Baggie@lemmy.zipEnglish21 hours
Well you see he’s stupid and can’t tell the difference between fiction and reality
- 1 day
Hire a historian to give a no-nonsense talk about the history of ideas Homer used. Believers in Greek gods and countries mentioned were definitely real. We don’t know nearly as much about them as Homer did but we know Odysseus wouldn’t encounter supernatural beings and can conjecture what these themes were inspired by.
- prole@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish24 hours
We don’t know nearly as much about them as Homer did
True, the man truly had vision.
There’s nobody better than a blind man to write historically about the hue of a person’s skin.
- buddascrayon@lemmy.worldEnglish23 hours
It is also speculated by historians that Homer wasn’t just one person but in fact entire industry of people whose job it was to tell stories.
1 dayI get what you’re saying, but maybe that’s a bad example. I actually do want them to release a historically accurate version of Star Wars… ie. the version that was released in 1977 in which Han Solo shot first and there wasn’t a bunch of CGI shit all over the place.
- buddascrayon@lemmy.worldEnglish23 hours
Star wars silver screen edition. Look it up, it’s out there. It’s like a 25 GB download but you can find it.
Bunch of fans got a hold of original film print of the movie and digitized it. No remastering, just the movie as it was presented in 1977.
- SkyezOpen@lemmy.worldEnglish1 day
Han Solo shot
firstonly.Han straight up ended greedo. Bug-eyed bastard never even got a shot off.
- bonesawmcl@lemmy.worldEnglish1 day
Well that exists! Sure not quite officially, but look up project 4K77, you can download that version of Star wars right now (and it’s awesome. I’ve watched all three of them in their most original version)
Yeah I got the despecialized edition and it’s fine. It’s weird that you have to pirate one the most popular movies to be shown in the theater to get what was shown in the theater.
- 2 days
Why are we okay with every robin hood movie being an interpretation, but all the sudden the oddesy needs to be historically perfect?
- Malyca@lemmy.zipEnglish2 days
Evidently Lupida isn’t beautiful enough to be Helen even as she is one of the prettiest women alive.
- 21 hours
Lupita Nyong’o as Helen of Troy? First I’ve heard of it, but she’s gorgeous, and a very talented actor. I think she’s a good choice.
They’d like everyone to look like, I don’t know, Bruce bailaban, Lucy lawless, some third thing, or hells forbid another space commerce gremlin. It’s important for the sex scenes to have the right amounts of nips and penes.
- 22 hours
I would not mind everybody looking like Lucy Lawless.
How is this a “threat”? What would be the dire consequences if he did?
“Offers” is the right word here.
- Lushed_Lungfish@lemmy.caEnglish2 days
Um, the Odyssey is fiction. It literally can’t be “historically accurate”.
- chuckleslord@lemmy.worldEnglish2 days
It’s a dog whistle for casting only white people and no queer actors. If something has a racist angle, assume that’s the one Musk means
- Senal@programming.devEnglish2 days
Ah yes, the famously pale ancient Greeks who definitely only engaged in the “correct” kinds of relationships.
If he isn’t an actual fucking idiot, he’s a premium rate actor.
- 1 day
Ancient Greeks, ancients Sparta in particular, was gay as f.
- chuckleslord@lemmy.worldEnglish2 days
(Looks at the history of Musk in the public eye)
I’m gonna say it’s the idiot one. All the moron had to do was keep his mouth shut and keep paying to buy the founder title of other market disruptors and he’d’ve been the next Henry Ford (literal nazi that Americans remember fondly cause he was “pro-labor” (threw labor a bone to disrupt union efforts))
Instead, we now all know he’s an evil idiot with an ego problem.
Elon will run his mouth for a while, then forget about this.
He will never follow through.
- 2 days
nono it will come any day now, just like hyper loop and self driving car
The Odyssey is fictional story.
Does he think magic and giants and gods are historically accurate?What about a historically accurate version of Harry
PotterDresden?JK Rowling is a bigoted cunt, and her content doesn’t deserve even a sliver of acknowledgement.
I do think it’s still fair to consider the very likely possibility that there’s a fair amount of truth contained within the story though (obviously not all the supernatural stuff, but still). That’s definitely the case with the Iliad; Troy was literally discovered in modern-day Türkiye in the 1800s.
All the crazy stuff in it is probably at least in part a result of its origin as an oral tradition instead of written text. The story being passed down across generations of memorizers without any hard reference to go off of tends to make for a really long game of telephone.
None of this is to humour Musk by the way. I just think this topic is interesting in general.
- homes@piefed.worldEnglish2 days
New York City is a real place that exists, but that doesn’t make the Avengers films any less fictional.
I’m going off of what real historians have hypothesized, not just baseless rhetoric. Nor am I claiming that the legends themselves are wholly factual (though as I’ve said it’s definitely possible to be partly the case). Feel free to read the Wikipedia article on it and draw your own conclusions.
Personally, I think it would be absurd if it were the case that in Late Bronze Age Greece — in or around the Bronze Age Collapse — they chose Troy (evidently not even a Greek setting) specifically to be the setting of an oral war story without there being a material reason for it, however minor. But that’s just me obviously.
Addendum (This is somewhat unrelated but still important to bring up): I think it’s honestly quite offensive to compare an entire cultural heritage’s creation to relatively simple blockbuster films made not even a couple decades ago. You’re comparing a cultural creation brought about in the midst of an entire mythos, through countless generations, to a few simple narratives; the origins of which can be found not even a century ago. Not only is it a false equivalence, it’s downright ignorant if not explicitly ill-intended. One was made through the contributions of several minds over hundreds of years through the sole intent of participating in a rich communion of ideas; the others were made, fundamentally, with the intention of turning a profit. It’s belittling and ethnocentric to pretend that they’re equivalent in any form.
I mean, “the Greeks have always been at war with the Persians” was always a good rallying cry. And arguing that the Persians are descendants of Troy would probably work as propaganda
- Uruanna@lemmy.worldEnglish2 days
We do know for a fact that the Achaeans and the Hittites had several conflicts over all of Western Anatolia and specifically control of Wilusa (Ilios / Troy) between the 15~14 and 12th c. BCE, and that the city got destroyed in battle during the collapse around 1180 BCE. We have a bunch of complaints from the Hittites about it.
The theories are that its a mythic retelling of a legend that’s an embellished version of something that basically ‘kind of’ happened, around the time of the Late Bronze Age Collapse, between the 13th and 12th centuries BCE.
The original date of it being first written down is somewhere in the 8th century BCE, so, yeah roughly 500 years of oral tradition untill then.
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Is-the-Odyssey-a-True-Story
Schliemann’s findings and the continuing work of later archeologists seriously fueled theories of the historicity of the Trojan War, dated by later Greek authors to the 12th or 13th century bce. While the mere existence of Troy is not proof that the war was real, the discovery of arrowheads, signs of fire, and unburied bodies found in a layer corresponding to the 13th century bce indicates the possibility of battles having occurred.
Supporting evidence includes Hittite records mentioning warfare with Wilusa, their name for Troy. Some historians believe that a kingdom the Hittites called Ahhiyawa was really Achaea, or ancient Greece. Records suggest that sometime in the 13th century, Ahhiyawan forces were involved in a war against Wilusa, whose ruler, Aleksandu (very similar to Alexandros, a name for the Trojan prince Paris), requested military aid from the Hittites. Experts believe that a real conflict or a series of conflicts of some scale—either a struggle for political or commercial supremacy—inspired embellished accounts of the Trojan War.
So… taken in whole… the Odyssey is maybe roughly as actually historically accurate as… the Old Testament.
If your lense is ‘is this legitimate history?’…
There are kernels of events that basically actually happened, and some important people who did something vaguely similar to what’s described in the stories… around which is erected a grand mythic narrative featuring a great amount of totally fantastic and impossible nonsense, and many wholly fabricated characters and ‘plot points’.
- Hemingways_Shotgun@lemmy.caEnglish2 days
Schliemann dug straight through the actual Troy that he was looking for, destroying a huge chunk of it to get to an even earlier settlement in the strata beneath that he decided to call Troy. His “method” was essentially do dig a trench all the way to the bottom, assuming that the oldest level would be Troy. (Yes…he was that stupid).
It was only afterwards that other, actual archaeologists placed the proper stratum that the homeric Troy would have existed in. And by then, much of it was already obliterated.
I majored in Near Eastern Classical Archaeology with a focus on the Bronze age (Hittites, Minoans, Mycenaeans, Babylonians, etc…), and lesson one may as as well have been titled “Why Heinrich Schliemenn was an asshole.”
This is extremely true and worth saying as you have.
Yeah, I’m not an subject matter specialist? expert? as you are, but yeah… errybody hates Schliemenn, because his idiotic site practices very likely destroyed a whole lot of … pretty important history.
- Hemingways_Shotgun@lemmy.caEnglish2 days
I’m far from a specialist. Not only is my knowledge about 25 years or so out of date, I ended up leaving with half a year left on my degree because not only did a divorce make me unable to afford to continue, but some guys from the middle east crashed into the World Trade Center and ignited a war that shut down any actual archaeological work in the most of that part of the world for a decade or so.
So rather than specialist, I’m a guy that has 3.5 years of a 4 year Bachelor’s degree, and then went off to take a bunch of computer certificates instead. lol.
Still regret never going back to finish it once the middle east settled down again.
This is an incredibly disingenuous reply so I’m not even going to do it the dignity of a fully-fleshed response.
All I need to say is that if you seriously read my comment as saying that the Odyssey is completely reliable history with little to no flaws or embellishments in its writing, then it sounds like you should take a course on media literacy.
- 2 days
Does he think magic and giants and gods are historically accurate?
Would you put it past him? The guy is so high most of the day he probably thinks the sparkle fairy brings him a coffee every morning.
- WatDabney@sopuli.xyzEnglish2 days
With historically accurate cyclops, scylla, charybdis, sirens and ghost of Agamemnon…
- betanumerus@lemmy.caEnglish2 days
You don’t need to make en entire fantasy film to show us that historically accurate cyclops, Elon!
